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#133: Has Religion Become Obsolete? A Conversation with Christian Smith (Part 1)

Dr. Christian Smith explores why religion feels outdated in modern culture, citing shifts in family, institutions, and technology as key causes.

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What’s Really Behind America’s Religious Decline?

If you’re watching church attendance declining at your congregation and wondering what you’re doing wrong, this conversation will transform how you understand the challenges facing American religion. Dr. Christian Smith, sociologist at the University of Notre Dame and author of “Why Religion Went Obsolete,” reveals that the struggles you’re experiencing aren’t primarily about your leadership, programs, or preaching. Instead, we’re dealing with “perfect storm” conditions—massive cultural, technological, and social forces that have been building for decades, creating what Smith calls a “cultural mismatch” between traditional religion and today’s zeitgeist.

Smith’s research identifies specific factors since 1991 that have reshaped the religious landscape, from the deinstitutionalization of the American family to the rise of anti-institutional sentiment and popular postmodernism. Rather than trying to fix church attendance declining through traditional methods, church leaders need to understand these macro-level forces and redirect their energy toward discerning where God is already at work. This liberating perspective helps leaders move beyond self-blame to focus on faithful response to genuinely unprecedented cultural conditions. Join hosts Dwight Zscheile and Terri Elton as they explore why traditional religion has become “obsolete” in American culture and what this means for the future of faith communities.

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Featuring

Headshot of Christian Smith
Christian Smith
William R. Kenan, Jr. Professor of Sociology at the University of Notre Dame

Christian Smith is the William R. Kenan, Jr. Professor of Sociology at the University of Notre Dame. He studies culture, religion, social theory, and environmental degradation and climate change, and is the author of many books, including Why Religion Went Obsolete: the Demise of Traditional Faith in America (OUP 2025); What is a Person?: Rethinking Humanity, Social Life, and the Moral Good from the Person Up (Chicago 2010); Soul Searching: the Religious and Spiritual Lives of American Teenagers (OUP 2005); and Moral, Believing Animals: Human Personhood and Culture (OUP 2003). Smith and his corgi live on and work a permaculture farmstead in southwest Michigan.

Hosts

Faith+Lead Headshot of The Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile, VP of Innovation, Luther Seminary.
Dwight Zscheile
Professor of Congregational Mission and Leadership, Luther Seminary, St. Paul, Minnesota

The Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile is professor of congregational mission and leadership at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota.

He is the author of Embracing the Mixed Ecology (with Blair Pogue, Seabury Books, 2025), Leading Faithful Innovation: Following God into a Hopeful Future (with Michael Binder and Tessa Pinkstaff, Fortress Press 2023), Participating in God’s Mission: A Theological Missiology for the U.S. (with Craig Van Gelder, Eerdmans 2018), The Agile Church: Spirit-Led Innovation in an Uncertain Age (Morehouse Publishing, 2014), People of the Way: Renewing Episcopal Identity (Morehouse Publishing, 2012) and The Missional Church in Perspective: Mapping Trends and Shaping the Conversation (with Craig Van Gelder, Baker Academic 2011), editor of Cultivating Sent Communities: Missional Spiritual Formation (Eerdmans, 2012), and co-editor (with Ed Olsworth-Peter) of The Starter’s Way: Leading New Contextual Christian Communities (Church Publishing, 2025).

A graduate of Stanford University (BA), Yale University (MDiv) and Luther Seminary (PhD, Congregational Mission and Leadership), Dwight previously served congregations in Minnesota, Virginia and Connecticut. Dwight’s experience growing up in a secular home in California has shaped his commitment to helping the church cultivate Christian community with neighbors in today’s changing world.

Terri Elton
Dean of Academic Affairs and Professor of Leadership, Luther Seminary, St. Paul, Minnesota

The Rev. Dr. Terri Martinson Elton began teaching at Luther Seminary as an adjunct instructor in 2004 before becoming the director of the Center for Children, Youth and Family Ministry in 2008. In addition to her continued work with the Center, Elton accepted the position of associate professor of Children, Youth and Family Ministry in 2010 and associate professor of Leadership in 2014.

Prior to her call to Luther Seminary, Elton served as an associate to the bishop in the Saint Paul Area Synod where her responsibilities included working with congregations, leadership development, First Call theological education and youth and family ministry.

Elton holds a B.A. degree in communications from Concordia College in Moorhead, Minn. (1986). She earned both her M.A. (1998) and Ph.D. (2007) degrees in Congregational Mission and Leadership from Luther Seminary.

About Pivot Podcast

Join us on Pivot Podcast, where we journey beyond church-as-usual to discover how God is reshaping ministry for today’s world.

Each week, we dive into conversations with innovative leaders and practitioners who are navigating four game-changing pivots: shifting from quick fixes to deep listening, from membership to discipleship, from rigid models to creative ministry ecosystems, and from clergy-centered leadership to unleashing everyone’s gifts.

Whether you’re a member of the clergy seeking fresh inspiration or a volunteer stepping into new leadership territory, Pivot Podcast equips you with the insights and practical wisdom to follow Jesus into a faithful future.

Through their work with diverse cohorts of preachers, they’ve discovered that the most compelling sermons aren’t necessarily the most polished – they’re the ones where preachers have learned to listen deeply to both God and their congregations. Learn practical tools for gathering meaningful feedback, understand why vulnerability matters more than ever in preaching, and discover how shifting from evaluation to understanding can deepen your sermon’s impact. Plus, hear why reimagining God’s agency in preaching might be the key to unlocking more powerful proclamation.

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Featuring

Headshot of Christian Smith
Christian Smith
William R. Kenan, Jr. Professor of Sociology at the University of Notre Dame

Christian Smith is the William R. Kenan, Jr. Professor of Sociology at the University of Notre Dame. He studies culture, religion, social theory, and environmental degradation and climate change, and is the author of many books, including Why Religion Went Obsolete: the Demise of Traditional Faith in America (OUP 2025); What is a Person?: Rethinking Humanity, Social Life, and the Moral Good from the Person Up (Chicago 2010); Soul Searching: the Religious and Spiritual Lives of American Teenagers (OUP 2005); and Moral, Believing Animals: Human Personhood and Culture (OUP 2003). Smith and his corgi live on and work a permaculture farmstead in southwest Michigan.

Hosts

Faith+Lead Headshot of The Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile, VP of Innovation, Luther Seminary.
Dwight Zscheile
Professor of Congregational Mission and Leadership, Luther Seminary, St. Paul, Minnesota

The Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile is professor of congregational mission and leadership at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota.

He is the author of Embracing the Mixed Ecology (with Blair Pogue, Seabury Books, 2025), Leading Faithful Innovation: Following God into a Hopeful Future (with Michael Binder and Tessa Pinkstaff, Fortress Press 2023), Participating in God’s Mission: A Theological Missiology for the U.S. (with Craig Van Gelder, Eerdmans 2018), The Agile Church: Spirit-Led Innovation in an Uncertain Age (Morehouse Publishing, 2014), People of the Way: Renewing Episcopal Identity (Morehouse Publishing, 2012) and The Missional Church in Perspective: Mapping Trends and Shaping the Conversation (with Craig Van Gelder, Baker Academic 2011), editor of Cultivating Sent Communities: Missional Spiritual Formation (Eerdmans, 2012), and co-editor (with Ed Olsworth-Peter) of The Starter’s Way: Leading New Contextual Christian Communities (Church Publishing, 2025).

A graduate of Stanford University (BA), Yale University (MDiv) and Luther Seminary (PhD, Congregational Mission and Leadership), Dwight previously served congregations in Minnesota, Virginia and Connecticut. Dwight’s experience growing up in a secular home in California has shaped his commitment to helping the church cultivate Christian community with neighbors in today’s changing world.

Terri Elton
Dean of Academic Affairs and Professor of Leadership, Luther Seminary, St. Paul, Minnesota

The Rev. Dr. Terri Martinson Elton began teaching at Luther Seminary as an adjunct instructor in 2004 before becoming the director of the Center for Children, Youth and Family Ministry in 2008. In addition to her continued work with the Center, Elton accepted the position of associate professor of Children, Youth and Family Ministry in 2010 and associate professor of Leadership in 2014.

Prior to her call to Luther Seminary, Elton served as an associate to the bishop in the Saint Paul Area Synod where her responsibilities included working with congregations, leadership development, First Call theological education and youth and family ministry.

Elton holds a B.A. degree in communications from Concordia College in Moorhead, Minn. (1986). She earned both her M.A. (1998) and Ph.D. (2007) degrees in Congregational Mission and Leadership from Luther Seminary.