In a culture driven by performance and achievement, ministry leaders often feel immense pressure to fix declining institutions and busy congregations with more programs. David Zahl, founder of Mockingbird Ministries and author of “The Big Relief,” joins hosts Dwight Zscheile and Terri Elton to explore how grace-centered ministry offers an alternative that both relieves pressure and creates more vibrant communities. David shares how his church has experienced unexpected growth by focusing on grace, giving permission for low engagement, and letting ministry initiatives emerge from the congregation rather than clergy.
This conversation unpacks David’s concept of “low anthropology”—a realistic view of human limitations that opens the door to greater compassion—and explores how churches can offer genuine relief in a worn-out world. Whether you’re facing ministry burnout or seeking to create a community where people feel truly seen and welcomed, this episode provides both theological depth and practical wisdom for shifting from fixing to listening and from performing to receiving grace.
Resources Mentioned:
- “Seculosity: How Career, Parenting, Technology, Food, Politics and Romance Became Our New Religion and What to Do About It”(David Zahl, 2020)
- “Low Anthropology: The Unlikely Key to a Gracious View of Others and Yourself,” (David Zahl, 2022)
- “The Big Relief: The Urgency of Grace for a Worn-Out World” (David Zahl, 2025)
- Mockingbird Ministries
- The Mockingcast podcast
- Brothers Zahl podcast
- “Evangelism in an Age of Despair” (Andrew Root, 2025)
- Mary Karr’s book “The Art of Memoir”
- Christ Episcopal Church in Charlottesville, Virginia (where David serves)
