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Homepage / Pivot Podcast /#47: Why Are So Many Churches Struggling Today?

#47: Why Are So Many Churches Struggling Today?

Join Dr. Dee Stokes, Dwight Zscheile, and guest Ted A. Smith as they navigate the transition from the Age of Association to the Age of Authenticity

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In today’s episode, our co-hosts talk with guest Ted A. Smith, author of “The End of Theological Education,” to gain a deeper understanding of the history of the voluntary association model of the church in the U.S., the cultural shifts taking place, what this means for congregational life and ministry moving forward, and where church leaders can find hope today.

Listen in as we explore a key shift taking place in our culture today and the four pivots you and your faith community can make in order to faithfully respond.

Show Notes

Featuring

Ted A. Smith author profile picture
Ted A. Smith
Guest in Pivot Podcast

The Rev. Dr. Ted A. Smith works at the intersections of practical and political theology. At Candler, Smith teaches especially in the areas of preaching and ethics. He also serves as director of Theological Education between the Times, a project that gathers diverse groups of people to think together about the meanings and purposes of theological education. With Dr. Joanne Solis-Walker, he is co-principal investigator of Candler’s innovative Pathways for Tomorrow initiatives.

Smith is the author of three books: The End of Theological Education (Eerdmans, 2023), Weird John Brown (Stanford, 2015), and The New Measures (Cambridge, 2007). Together these books try to think theologically about core American Protestant institutions, practices, values, and rhetoric in a time when they are unraveling.

Hosts

Dr. Dee Stokes
Dee Stokes
Entrepreneurial Minister, Educator, Consultant, Author, and Podcaster

Dr. Dee Stokes is an entrepreneurial minister, educator, consultant, author, and podcaster. With 30 years of experience in education, Dr. Stokes understands what it means to be co-vocational and serve God in the Church and in the marketplace.

She has worked at every level of education and has also served as a Senior Pastor, Formation and Connections Pastor, and Teaching Pastor. She has a passion for God and His Church and to see people walk in divine destiny. Her degrees are in Sociology (B.A. from UNC Charlotte), Public Administration (M.P.A. from Devry University), Biblical and Theological Foundations (M.B.T.F. from Asbury Theological Seminary), and Educational Leadership (Ed.S. & Ed.D. from Liberty University). Dr. Stokes’s research interests include Cultural Intelligence, Emotional Intelligence, Burnout, Transformational Leadership, unconscious bias, and spousal responsibility.

Faith+Lead Headshot of The Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile, VP of Innovation, Luther Seminary.
Dwight Zscheile
Professor of Congregational Mission and Leadership, Luther Seminary, St. Paul, Minnesota

The Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile is professor of congregational mission and leadership at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota.

He is the author of Embracing the Mixed Ecology (with Blair Pogue, Seabury Books, 2025), Leading Faithful Innovation: Following God into a Hopeful Future (with Michael Binder and Tessa Pinkstaff, Fortress Press 2023), Participating in God’s Mission: A Theological Missiology for the U.S. (with Craig Van Gelder, Eerdmans 2018), The Agile Church: Spirit-Led Innovation in an Uncertain Age (Morehouse Publishing, 2014), People of the Way: Renewing Episcopal Identity (Morehouse Publishing, 2012) and The Missional Church in Perspective: Mapping Trends and Shaping the Conversation (with Craig Van Gelder, Baker Academic 2011), editor of Cultivating Sent Communities: Missional Spiritual Formation (Eerdmans, 2012), and co-editor (with Ed Olsworth-Peter) of The Starter’s Way: Leading New Contextual Christian Communities (Church Publishing, 2025).

A graduate of Stanford University (BA), Yale University (MDiv) and Luther Seminary (PhD, Congregational Mission and Leadership), Dwight previously served congregations in Minnesota, Virginia and Connecticut. Dwight’s experience growing up in a secular home in California has shaped his commitment to helping the church cultivate Christian community with neighbors in today’s changing world.

About Pivot Podcast

Join us on Pivot Podcast, where we journey beyond church-as-usual to discover how God is reshaping ministry for today’s world.

Each week, we dive into conversations with innovative leaders and practitioners who are navigating four game-changing pivots: shifting from quick fixes to deep listening, from membership to discipleship, from rigid models to creative ministry ecosystems, and from clergy-centered leadership to unleashing everyone’s gifts.

Whether you’re a member of the clergy seeking fresh inspiration or a volunteer stepping into new leadership territory, Pivot Podcast equips you with the insights and practical wisdom to follow Jesus into a faithful future.

Through their work with diverse cohorts of preachers, they’ve discovered that the most compelling sermons aren’t necessarily the most polished – they’re the ones where preachers have learned to listen deeply to both God and their congregations. Learn practical tools for gathering meaningful feedback, understand why vulnerability matters more than ever in preaching, and discover how shifting from evaluation to understanding can deepen your sermon’s impact. Plus, hear why reimagining God’s agency in preaching might be the key to unlocking more powerful proclamation.

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Featuring

Ted A. Smith author profile picture
Ted A. Smith
Guest in Pivot Podcast

The Rev. Dr. Ted A. Smith works at the intersections of practical and political theology. At Candler, Smith teaches especially in the areas of preaching and ethics. He also serves as director of Theological Education between the Times, a project that gathers diverse groups of people to think together about the meanings and purposes of theological education. With Dr. Joanne Solis-Walker, he is co-principal investigator of Candler’s innovative Pathways for Tomorrow initiatives.

Smith is the author of three books: The End of Theological Education (Eerdmans, 2023), Weird John Brown (Stanford, 2015), and The New Measures (Cambridge, 2007). Together these books try to think theologically about core American Protestant institutions, practices, values, and rhetoric in a time when they are unraveling.

Hosts

Dr. Dee Stokes
Dee Stokes
Entrepreneurial Minister, Educator, Consultant, Author, and Podcaster

Dr. Dee Stokes is an entrepreneurial minister, educator, consultant, author, and podcaster. With 30 years of experience in education, Dr. Stokes understands what it means to be co-vocational and serve God in the Church and in the marketplace.

She has worked at every level of education and has also served as a Senior Pastor, Formation and Connections Pastor, and Teaching Pastor. She has a passion for God and His Church and to see people walk in divine destiny. Her degrees are in Sociology (B.A. from UNC Charlotte), Public Administration (M.P.A. from Devry University), Biblical and Theological Foundations (M.B.T.F. from Asbury Theological Seminary), and Educational Leadership (Ed.S. & Ed.D. from Liberty University). Dr. Stokes’s research interests include Cultural Intelligence, Emotional Intelligence, Burnout, Transformational Leadership, unconscious bias, and spousal responsibility.

Faith+Lead Headshot of The Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile, VP of Innovation, Luther Seminary.
Dwight Zscheile
Professor of Congregational Mission and Leadership, Luther Seminary, St. Paul, Minnesota

The Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile is professor of congregational mission and leadership at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota.

He is the author of Embracing the Mixed Ecology (with Blair Pogue, Seabury Books, 2025), Leading Faithful Innovation: Following God into a Hopeful Future (with Michael Binder and Tessa Pinkstaff, Fortress Press 2023), Participating in God’s Mission: A Theological Missiology for the U.S. (with Craig Van Gelder, Eerdmans 2018), The Agile Church: Spirit-Led Innovation in an Uncertain Age (Morehouse Publishing, 2014), People of the Way: Renewing Episcopal Identity (Morehouse Publishing, 2012) and The Missional Church in Perspective: Mapping Trends and Shaping the Conversation (with Craig Van Gelder, Baker Academic 2011), editor of Cultivating Sent Communities: Missional Spiritual Formation (Eerdmans, 2012), and co-editor (with Ed Olsworth-Peter) of The Starter’s Way: Leading New Contextual Christian Communities (Church Publishing, 2025).

A graduate of Stanford University (BA), Yale University (MDiv) and Luther Seminary (PhD, Congregational Mission and Leadership), Dwight previously served congregations in Minnesota, Virginia and Connecticut. Dwight’s experience growing up in a secular home in California has shaped his commitment to helping the church cultivate Christian community with neighbors in today’s changing world.