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#57: How to Help Your Church Listen into a Hopeful Future

In this episode of the Pivot podcast, co-hosts Terri Elton and Dwight Zscheile, joined by guest Mark Lau Branson, explore alternative questions, embrace disruption, and align with God's actions in scripture for a hopeful future

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In this episode of the Pivot podcast, co-hosts Terri Elton and Dwight Zscheile are joined by guest, Mark Lau Branson.

Mark Lau Branson is the Homer L. Goddard Senior Professor of the Ministry of the Laity and has taught at Fuller Theological Seminary since 2000. As a senior professor, his work focuses on Ph.D. students.

Leaders, if you’re tired of navigating rigid church structures, this conversation empowers you to explore alternative questions and delve into scripture and community stories. Embrace disruption and uncertainty, as these moments align with God’s actions in scripture.

In our next episode, we continue to explore the key pivots the church needs to make today.

Show Notes

Featuring

Mark Lau Branson
Guest in Pivot Podcast

Mark Lau Branson is the Homer L. Goddard Senior Professor of the Ministry of the Laity and has taught at Fuller since 2000. As a senior professor, his work focuses on Ph.D. students.

Dr. Branson was ordained at San Francisco Christian Center, an African American Pentecostal church, and has served on the pastoral teams in United Methodist and Presbyterian churches.

He has worked with several agencies active in education, community development, and community organizing, and continues to serve as a consultant and speaker. His most recent books are Leadership, God’s Agency, & Disruptions: Confronting Modernity’s Wager, coauthored with Alan Roxburgh (2021), a revised edition of Churches, Cultures, and Leadership: A Practical Theology of Congregations and Ethnicities, coauthored with Juan Martínez (2023), as well as Memories, Hopes, and Conversations: Appreciative Inquiry, Missional Engagement, and Congregational Change.

He has contributed to the Journal of Missional Practice, the Journal of Religious Leadership, and Transformation: An International Journal on Evangelical Social Ethics.

Branson is on the national Advisory Board of the nonprofit CHERP Solar Power, and has served on the boards of the Institute of Urban Initiatives, the Ekklesia Project, and the Academy of Religious Leadership. Mark and his wife, Nina Lau-Branson, are active at La Fuente Ministries, a bi-lingual, multicultural church in Pasadena; they have two adult sons.

Terri Elton
Dean of Academic Affairs and Professor of Leadership, Luther Seminary, St. Paul, Minnesota

The Rev. Dr. Terri Martinson Elton began teaching at Luther Seminary as an adjunct instructor in 2004 before becoming the director of the Center for Children, Youth and Family Ministry in 2008. In addition to her continued work with the Center, Elton accepted the position of associate professor of Children, Youth and Family Ministry in 2010 and associate professor of Leadership in 2014.

Prior to her call to Luther Seminary, Elton served as an associate to the bishop in the Saint Paul Area Synod where her responsibilities included working with congregations, leadership development, First Call theological education and youth and family ministry.

Elton holds a B.A. degree in communications from Concordia College in Moorhead, Minn. (1986). She earned both her M.A. (1998) and Ph.D. (2007) degrees in Congregational Mission and Leadership from Luther Seminary.

Hosts

Faith+Lead Headshot of The Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile, VP of Innovation, Luther Seminary.
Dwight Zscheile
Professor of Congregational Mission and Leadership, Luther Seminary, St. Paul, Minnesota

The Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile is professor of congregational mission and leadership at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota.

He is the author of Embracing the Mixed Ecology (with Blair Pogue, Seabury Books, 2025), Leading Faithful Innovation: Following God into a Hopeful Future (with Michael Binder and Tessa Pinkstaff, Fortress Press 2023), Participating in God’s Mission: A Theological Missiology for the U.S. (with Craig Van Gelder, Eerdmans 2018), The Agile Church: Spirit-Led Innovation in an Uncertain Age (Morehouse Publishing, 2014), People of the Way: Renewing Episcopal Identity (Morehouse Publishing, 2012) and The Missional Church in Perspective: Mapping Trends and Shaping the Conversation (with Craig Van Gelder, Baker Academic 2011), editor of Cultivating Sent Communities: Missional Spiritual Formation (Eerdmans, 2012), and co-editor (with Ed Olsworth-Peter) of The Starter’s Way: Leading New Contextual Christian Communities (Church Publishing, 2025).

A graduate of Stanford University (BA), Yale University (MDiv) and Luther Seminary (PhD, Congregational Mission and Leadership), Dwight previously served congregations in Minnesota, Virginia and Connecticut. Dwight’s experience growing up in a secular home in California has shaped his commitment to helping the church cultivate Christian community with neighbors in today’s changing world.

Terri Elton
Dean of Academic Affairs and Professor of Leadership, Luther Seminary, St. Paul, Minnesota

The Rev. Dr. Terri Martinson Elton began teaching at Luther Seminary as an adjunct instructor in 2004 before becoming the director of the Center for Children, Youth and Family Ministry in 2008. In addition to her continued work with the Center, Elton accepted the position of associate professor of Children, Youth and Family Ministry in 2010 and associate professor of Leadership in 2014.

Prior to her call to Luther Seminary, Elton served as an associate to the bishop in the Saint Paul Area Synod where her responsibilities included working with congregations, leadership development, First Call theological education and youth and family ministry.

Elton holds a B.A. degree in communications from Concordia College in Moorhead, Minn. (1986). She earned both her M.A. (1998) and Ph.D. (2007) degrees in Congregational Mission and Leadership from Luther Seminary.

About Pivot Podcast

Join us on Pivot Podcast, where we journey beyond church-as-usual to discover how God is reshaping ministry for today’s world.

Each week, we dive into conversations with innovative leaders and practitioners who are navigating four game-changing pivots: shifting from quick fixes to deep listening, from membership to discipleship, from rigid models to creative ministry ecosystems, and from clergy-centered leadership to unleashing everyone’s gifts.

Whether you’re a member of the clergy seeking fresh inspiration or a volunteer stepping into new leadership territory, Pivot Podcast equips you with the insights and practical wisdom to follow Jesus into a faithful future.

Through their work with diverse cohorts of preachers, they’ve discovered that the most compelling sermons aren’t necessarily the most polished – they’re the ones where preachers have learned to listen deeply to both God and their congregations. Learn practical tools for gathering meaningful feedback, understand why vulnerability matters more than ever in preaching, and discover how shifting from evaluation to understanding can deepen your sermon’s impact. Plus, hear why reimagining God’s agency in preaching might be the key to unlocking more powerful proclamation.

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Featuring

Mark Lau Branson
Guest in Pivot Podcast

Mark Lau Branson is the Homer L. Goddard Senior Professor of the Ministry of the Laity and has taught at Fuller since 2000. As a senior professor, his work focuses on Ph.D. students.

Dr. Branson was ordained at San Francisco Christian Center, an African American Pentecostal church, and has served on the pastoral teams in United Methodist and Presbyterian churches.

He has worked with several agencies active in education, community development, and community organizing, and continues to serve as a consultant and speaker. His most recent books are Leadership, God’s Agency, & Disruptions: Confronting Modernity’s Wager, coauthored with Alan Roxburgh (2021), a revised edition of Churches, Cultures, and Leadership: A Practical Theology of Congregations and Ethnicities, coauthored with Juan Martínez (2023), as well as Memories, Hopes, and Conversations: Appreciative Inquiry, Missional Engagement, and Congregational Change.

He has contributed to the Journal of Missional Practice, the Journal of Religious Leadership, and Transformation: An International Journal on Evangelical Social Ethics.

Branson is on the national Advisory Board of the nonprofit CHERP Solar Power, and has served on the boards of the Institute of Urban Initiatives, the Ekklesia Project, and the Academy of Religious Leadership. Mark and his wife, Nina Lau-Branson, are active at La Fuente Ministries, a bi-lingual, multicultural church in Pasadena; they have two adult sons.

Terri Elton
Dean of Academic Affairs and Professor of Leadership, Luther Seminary, St. Paul, Minnesota

The Rev. Dr. Terri Martinson Elton began teaching at Luther Seminary as an adjunct instructor in 2004 before becoming the director of the Center for Children, Youth and Family Ministry in 2008. In addition to her continued work with the Center, Elton accepted the position of associate professor of Children, Youth and Family Ministry in 2010 and associate professor of Leadership in 2014.

Prior to her call to Luther Seminary, Elton served as an associate to the bishop in the Saint Paul Area Synod where her responsibilities included working with congregations, leadership development, First Call theological education and youth and family ministry.

Elton holds a B.A. degree in communications from Concordia College in Moorhead, Minn. (1986). She earned both her M.A. (1998) and Ph.D. (2007) degrees in Congregational Mission and Leadership from Luther Seminary.

Hosts

Faith+Lead Headshot of The Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile, VP of Innovation, Luther Seminary.
Dwight Zscheile
Professor of Congregational Mission and Leadership, Luther Seminary, St. Paul, Minnesota

The Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile is professor of congregational mission and leadership at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota.

He is the author of Embracing the Mixed Ecology (with Blair Pogue, Seabury Books, 2025), Leading Faithful Innovation: Following God into a Hopeful Future (with Michael Binder and Tessa Pinkstaff, Fortress Press 2023), Participating in God’s Mission: A Theological Missiology for the U.S. (with Craig Van Gelder, Eerdmans 2018), The Agile Church: Spirit-Led Innovation in an Uncertain Age (Morehouse Publishing, 2014), People of the Way: Renewing Episcopal Identity (Morehouse Publishing, 2012) and The Missional Church in Perspective: Mapping Trends and Shaping the Conversation (with Craig Van Gelder, Baker Academic 2011), editor of Cultivating Sent Communities: Missional Spiritual Formation (Eerdmans, 2012), and co-editor (with Ed Olsworth-Peter) of The Starter’s Way: Leading New Contextual Christian Communities (Church Publishing, 2025).

A graduate of Stanford University (BA), Yale University (MDiv) and Luther Seminary (PhD, Congregational Mission and Leadership), Dwight previously served congregations in Minnesota, Virginia and Connecticut. Dwight’s experience growing up in a secular home in California has shaped his commitment to helping the church cultivate Christian community with neighbors in today’s changing world.

Terri Elton
Dean of Academic Affairs and Professor of Leadership, Luther Seminary, St. Paul, Minnesota

The Rev. Dr. Terri Martinson Elton began teaching at Luther Seminary as an adjunct instructor in 2004 before becoming the director of the Center for Children, Youth and Family Ministry in 2008. In addition to her continued work with the Center, Elton accepted the position of associate professor of Children, Youth and Family Ministry in 2010 and associate professor of Leadership in 2014.

Prior to her call to Luther Seminary, Elton served as an associate to the bishop in the Saint Paul Area Synod where her responsibilities included working with congregations, leadership development, First Call theological education and youth and family ministry.

Elton holds a B.A. degree in communications from Concordia College in Moorhead, Minn. (1986). She earned both her M.A. (1998) and Ph.D. (2007) degrees in Congregational Mission and Leadership from Luther Seminary.