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#80: The Future is Lay-Led: How Lay Ministry Training is Transforming Churches

In this episode of the Pivot podcast, Rev. Clara King discusses how small, rural churches can empower laypeople, with the church's "edges" driving innovation and collaborative ministry.

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In this episode of the Pivot podcast, the Rev. Clara King, an Anglican priest and researcher who has worked extensively with small, rural churches in the Anglican Church of Canada, shares her wisdom and hope for a church that equips and empowers laypeople to step into their God-given callings. Starting with her experience working with congregations on the margins, Clara makes the case that the “edges” of the church are actually the center of innovation and renewal, modeling the shifts that all churches will need to make in the coming years.

Through vivid stories of ordinary laypeople becoming extraordinary leaders, Clara paints a picture of what vibrant, collaborative ministry can look like when clergy and congregations work together to “own their stuff” and embrace a more Spirit-led, adaptive way of being church. Whether you’re a clergy leader looking for fresh ways to empower your congregation or a layperson discerning your own call to ministry, this conversation will stretch your imagination and ground you in the hope that God is already at work, inviting us to join in something new.

Show Notes

Featuring

Clara King
Guest in Pivot Podcast

The Rev. Clara King empowers and equips good, faithful leaders wherever they’re found in the Church. An Anglican Priest from Calgary, Canada, Clara has been researching, discerning and fostering congregational health since 2005, using tools such as Adaptive Leadership.

Clara is a PhD Candidate in Practical Theology at Fuller Seminary, studying how to teach Adaptive Leadership. She is a Research Affiliate at Vancouver School of Theology, and since 2021, her work has been funded in part by Trinity Church Wall Street.

In 2024 and 2025, as part of her doctoral research study, she will be testing a new approach to teaching adaptive leadership to Anglican, United and Presbyterian clergy at ten sites across Canada.

Clara has ten years of ordained ministry experience, both in parish and diocesan ministry, working with urban, multi-ethnic churches as well as struggling rural congregations.

With her husband Michael, she has two adult step-daughters, two characterful horses, and a delightful Border Terrier named Jonah.

Hosts

Faith+Lead Headshot of Dr. Alicia Granholm, Senior Director of Faith+Lead.
Alicia Granholm
Senior Director, Faith+Lead, Luther Seminary, St. Paul, Minnesota

Dr. Alicia Granholm is senior director of Faith+Lead at Luther Seminary and a leadership and church consultant based in Minneapolis, Minnesota. She helps pastors and leaders engage culture to make a lasting impact. For nearly two decades, she has trained, equipped, and empowered followers of Jesus to engage their local communities by contextualizing the Gospel and its application. Alicia compassionately crosses cultural boundaries having lived, studied, traveled, and served in 25 countries on six continents. Alicia has a Doctor of Strategic Leadership, Global Consulting (Regent University), M.Div. (Bethel Seminary), and M.A. in Teaching (University of St. Thomas).

Faith+Lead Headshot of The Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile, VP of Innovation, Luther Seminary.
Dwight Zscheile
Professor of Congregational Mission and Leadership, Luther Seminary, St. Paul, Minnesota

The Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile is professor of congregational mission and leadership at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota.

He is the author of Embracing the Mixed Ecology (with Blair Pogue, Seabury Books, 2025), Leading Faithful Innovation: Following God into a Hopeful Future (with Michael Binder and Tessa Pinkstaff, Fortress Press 2023), Participating in God’s Mission: A Theological Missiology for the U.S. (with Craig Van Gelder, Eerdmans 2018), The Agile Church: Spirit-Led Innovation in an Uncertain Age (Morehouse Publishing, 2014), People of the Way: Renewing Episcopal Identity (Morehouse Publishing, 2012) and The Missional Church in Perspective: Mapping Trends and Shaping the Conversation (with Craig Van Gelder, Baker Academic 2011), editor of Cultivating Sent Communities: Missional Spiritual Formation (Eerdmans, 2012), and co-editor (with Ed Olsworth-Peter) of The Starter’s Way: Leading New Contextual Christian Communities (Church Publishing, 2025).

A graduate of Stanford University (BA), Yale University (MDiv) and Luther Seminary (PhD, Congregational Mission and Leadership), Dwight previously served congregations in Minnesota, Virginia and Connecticut. Dwight’s experience growing up in a secular home in California has shaped his commitment to helping the church cultivate Christian community with neighbors in today’s changing world.

About Pivot Podcast

Join us on Pivot Podcast, where we journey beyond church-as-usual to discover how God is reshaping ministry for today’s world.

Each week, we dive into conversations with innovative leaders and practitioners who are navigating four game-changing pivots: shifting from quick fixes to deep listening, from membership to discipleship, from rigid models to creative ministry ecosystems, and from clergy-centered leadership to unleashing everyone’s gifts.

Whether you’re a member of the clergy seeking fresh inspiration or a volunteer stepping into new leadership territory, Pivot Podcast equips you with the insights and practical wisdom to follow Jesus into a faithful future.

Through their work with diverse cohorts of preachers, they’ve discovered that the most compelling sermons aren’t necessarily the most polished – they’re the ones where preachers have learned to listen deeply to both God and their congregations. Learn practical tools for gathering meaningful feedback, understand why vulnerability matters more than ever in preaching, and discover how shifting from evaluation to understanding can deepen your sermon’s impact. Plus, hear why reimagining God’s agency in preaching might be the key to unlocking more powerful proclamation.

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Downloadable included

Featuring

Clara King
Guest in Pivot Podcast

The Rev. Clara King empowers and equips good, faithful leaders wherever they’re found in the Church. An Anglican Priest from Calgary, Canada, Clara has been researching, discerning and fostering congregational health since 2005, using tools such as Adaptive Leadership.

Clara is a PhD Candidate in Practical Theology at Fuller Seminary, studying how to teach Adaptive Leadership. She is a Research Affiliate at Vancouver School of Theology, and since 2021, her work has been funded in part by Trinity Church Wall Street.

In 2024 and 2025, as part of her doctoral research study, she will be testing a new approach to teaching adaptive leadership to Anglican, United and Presbyterian clergy at ten sites across Canada.

Clara has ten years of ordained ministry experience, both in parish and diocesan ministry, working with urban, multi-ethnic churches as well as struggling rural congregations.

With her husband Michael, she has two adult step-daughters, two characterful horses, and a delightful Border Terrier named Jonah.

Hosts

Faith+Lead Headshot of Dr. Alicia Granholm, Senior Director of Faith+Lead.
Alicia Granholm
Senior Director, Faith+Lead, Luther Seminary, St. Paul, Minnesota

Dr. Alicia Granholm is senior director of Faith+Lead at Luther Seminary and a leadership and church consultant based in Minneapolis, Minnesota. She helps pastors and leaders engage culture to make a lasting impact. For nearly two decades, she has trained, equipped, and empowered followers of Jesus to engage their local communities by contextualizing the Gospel and its application. Alicia compassionately crosses cultural boundaries having lived, studied, traveled, and served in 25 countries on six continents. Alicia has a Doctor of Strategic Leadership, Global Consulting (Regent University), M.Div. (Bethel Seminary), and M.A. in Teaching (University of St. Thomas).

Faith+Lead Headshot of The Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile, VP of Innovation, Luther Seminary.
Dwight Zscheile
Professor of Congregational Mission and Leadership, Luther Seminary, St. Paul, Minnesota

The Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile is professor of congregational mission and leadership at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota.

He is the author of Embracing the Mixed Ecology (with Blair Pogue, Seabury Books, 2025), Leading Faithful Innovation: Following God into a Hopeful Future (with Michael Binder and Tessa Pinkstaff, Fortress Press 2023), Participating in God’s Mission: A Theological Missiology for the U.S. (with Craig Van Gelder, Eerdmans 2018), The Agile Church: Spirit-Led Innovation in an Uncertain Age (Morehouse Publishing, 2014), People of the Way: Renewing Episcopal Identity (Morehouse Publishing, 2012) and The Missional Church in Perspective: Mapping Trends and Shaping the Conversation (with Craig Van Gelder, Baker Academic 2011), editor of Cultivating Sent Communities: Missional Spiritual Formation (Eerdmans, 2012), and co-editor (with Ed Olsworth-Peter) of The Starter’s Way: Leading New Contextual Christian Communities (Church Publishing, 2025).

A graduate of Stanford University (BA), Yale University (MDiv) and Luther Seminary (PhD, Congregational Mission and Leadership), Dwight previously served congregations in Minnesota, Virginia and Connecticut. Dwight’s experience growing up in a secular home in California has shaped his commitment to helping the church cultivate Christian community with neighbors in today’s changing world.